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Also spelt: Chiren, Cyren, Seline, Logmion.
The verses herein directly relate to CHYREN, SELIN, CHIREN, CYREN, SELINE and LOGMION. Characters who are also connected to CHYREN, SELIN are treated separately: see also, Barbarians, Arabs, Cock, Lion and the Eagle, England. Additional verses will be added from time to time, and commentary as fitting based on the feedback received to Nostradamus on CHYREN, SELIN.
Yellow Text indicates a link to a supporting book, century or verse from Nostradamus
The depth and wealth of time covered in the verses of Nostradamus make discussion point complex, where to start, whether it be past, present or future. In the discussion on the verses concerning the above characters I have chosen to start at a point where one of the 3, is replaced by one of the other two.
We start not knowing whether they are good, bad, or just plain ugly and evil.
The verse appears to tell us that a character named Logmyon somehow inherits the realm, kingdom, or Empire of a character called Seline. It can even be read the opposite way around.
The 3rd line tells us that one or the other will do more than his predecessor, and extend his territory. And this person may be ruled, directed by a more prudent but dishonest person, or one who has a deformity of some kind?
The previous Authors have not governed themselves by any rules of understanding. Thus, they treat each verse in general as if it has nothing to do with any other.
They may cry out at such a statement saying they have linked several verses to certain historical characters. Indeed, they have, but Napoleon the 3rd, or Henry the 2nd and Cromwell and other characters to which they have assigned several verses are utter nonsense. Most of the characters they have designated verses to, are not even remembered in our present history by joe public. Yet they remember Alexander the Great, or Caesar, Napoleon and Hitler by name at least, even if that's all.
Alas poor Yorick, we cannot even be sure of that anymore.
The word- title Logmyon, should have been l'ogmion, the Celtic Hercules 'Ogmois'. The Hercules of Rome, the Herakles of the Greeks, the Melquat of the Phoenicians, is one of the oldest known gods of ancient history, who has had many names, such a character exists in every ancient culture and religion based on astrology, and there never was any other kind.
Seline, or Selin, are definitely ancient titles of the moon goddess, whether it be the Greek Selene, or the male moon Silenus.
Thus, I read.
The Celtic Hercules will come into possession of the realm of the great Selin;
He will achieve far more, and through the Italians
will spread the influence of his ensign beyond its borders.
He will be advised by a cunning crafty one (a hunchbacked or crooked one, I can see in my mind's eye).
Now there is another point to make before we go on. It concerns his 'ensign:' it may well be that his ensign, is that of the Medusine ensign, that I have previously discussed at length in eBook 2, the March of the Antichrists, seek Century 9, Verse 84 commentary.
For seven years, will Philips fortune prosper,
Again, and again defeating the assaults of the Arabs,
Then at the height of his power, a perplexing and contrary affair,
The young Hercules (ogmion) will wipe his stronghold off the face of the earth.
Several French words need clarification on this one.
Rebaissera: As rebassinera, often to, or chase again; to repeat an action.
Midi: Midday, noon, when the sun is at its greatest elevation, or by metaphor, as a man, at his strongest, most powerful, height of his power or influence.
Rebors: As rebours, backward, quite contrary, full against the course, against the grain, wind etc.
Abismera: As abysmera, to engulf, to swallow up, sink to the depths, cast into a bottomless pit, or hole; also, to beat, utterly destroy. Flatten, ruin, overthrow.
This character Philip, appears in several verses; he seems to play a central role in halting or at least stalling the Arabs conquest of Europe. Unfortunately for Europe his luck runs out, it also begs a question as to who's side this Ogmois, Hercules is on?
The old ways will all be embellished,
Many will proceed to Memphis somentree,
The great Mercury of Hercules Fleur de Lis,
Causing land, sea, and country to tremble.
The word 'somentree', makes that line extremely difficult to translate properly. Firstly. because there is no such word in French or Latin. EL. Decided to render it 'modern'. JH. As 'similar'. And our great comic NR. takes it from 'somme', to nap, doze, or sleep; giving, 'people will pass through Memphis half asleep.' LOL.
The nearest I could get was to take it from 'fomenter' to stir up, stirred, agitate: and that is if the S was an F, and the two are very similar in Nostra's texts. The lowercase s's except when are used at the end of a word, are rendered as f or ff, only the horizontal line is missing or very short it is difficult sometimes to tell an f from an s. Neither is it possible to split the word satisfactory way, som-entrée, does not make sense.
However, considering this Hercules is causing serious waves of panic, on land, sea and country, it would seem fit, that people might be stirred up or agitated in some way or other. Thus, it might be better to render line 2 as,
Stirred up, many will march upon Memphis,.
Hercules king of Rome and d'Annemarc,
Of France 3 surnamed Guyon:
Italy and the wave of St Mark to tremble,
First monarch above all others most famous.
Line 3. The waves of St MARK, signify Venice. The word translated WAVE or waves as they would be, is 'et unde de St Marc'. Unde is as onde, and signifies the wavy lines used in coats of arms. The coat of arms of Venice has a winged Lion with its back feet on the sea, water, one front paw on the land, the other holding a sword; on the naval flag the Lion has its back paws resting on wavy lines.
In line 2, we have Guyon, from Guyron, which also relates to coats of arms. While it is generally a wedge or triangular form, in varied numbers, 6-8 or 12, I suspect that it be six in reference to the Fleur de Lis. I may be wrong but I have already remarked on the three brothers of France and the Fleur de Lis, one of whom is said to be the king of Rome [c 5 v 50 book 2]. This king may also be the king of Denmark, as well as Rome, as 'Annemarc'? more insight from other verses is required, if foolish presumptions are not to confuse the puzzle.
The natural offspring of Dogmion (Ogmois),
Of 7 to 9 to turn from the path;
To the King and friend to the half man,
It Navarre doit, to flatten the stronghold of Pau (Po).
JH. Has behoves for doit, I find is not a French word, then Nostra smiled and said what did I tell you, 'do it'.
The half man, a pig?
The hunchback will be elected by the council,
Never on earth did a more hideous monster appear,
A swift violent blow will take out his eye,
The traitor to the king (roy) taken as loyal.
While it may seem Century 3, Verse 41 connects with the previous, it may not, assumptions are deadly things. The word I rendered 'swift violent' is 'volant', =flying, swiftly passing, fast, running, momentary, flitting. But considering what we will read in another verse, volant, and violent, would seem appropriate. The only other word in the original that needs clarifying is 'recu' it has a small squiggle under the 'c' and a mark above the 'u'; considering the poetical requirements, we find the 2nd line ends with Apperceu, thus the last word of the 4th line, which ends with recu, should be 'receu', but 'recus', is the verb of recevoir, to receive, accept take etc, or, as receveur, a receiver or receiving.
But let us take a step back, because before anyone can take over or come into possession of something that was someone else's, that person must possess something worth gaining.
The Italian Monarch Selin peaceful,
All realms united under the Christian king of the world,
Dying he will seek promise to be buried in the land of the blessed,
After having chased the pirates from the sea.
Do not misread the first two lines, Selin is the king of Italy, not the Christian king of the world.
The word 'voudra' in the 3rd line comes from 'voue', vowed, religiously promised, or protested for; also, given, bequeathed, granted, betaken, or devoted unto.
The king of Italy-Selin wishes to be buried in the Isle of the blessed, not Italy, but in the Elysian fields. Do not think that he was always a good or peaceful king either, this would be a grave mistake.
[I am baffled how JH. & EL. Can conceive the 'terre blesique' the blessed land as 'blois land or territory' which is in France, strangely not that far from Le Mons, and more oddly, Vendome, often called Vendosme by Nostra. Surely he is a Italian king? Why would anybody want to be buried in Blois, unless they were born there? NR. Is at his lunatic best, translating blesique as a 'cornfield', ???]
To get to the Elysian fields you must first pass through the pillars of Hercules, but I hold my tongue, if you read enough you will know where they are to be found, it was also called the land of milk and honey in the Bible.
One slight problem on this one, EL. JH. & NR, have 'n'y consent.' But in the original I see only 'y consent.' Obviously, there is an important difference. 'n'y consent', sig. to not consent to, or not give consent, or, will not agree to. Whereas, 'y consent', is to agree or give consent to a thing. The 2nd line ends with, clame, the 4th with reclame, both having an accent over the 'e'. clame, sig. claimed, demanded, called, or cried out to. reclame, sig. called often, or instantly, earnestly cried out to; also, repugned, contradicted, complained against; also, sued, prosecuted, pursued etc, it does not sig, reclaimed or claimed, as if something was wanted, it more as disclaimed, not wanted.
If the other Authors original copy is correct, then how I translate the verse will be wrong, but other verses tell me my senses are correct and 'y consent' is thus correct.
At the victory of the expanding Selin (Empire) they will cry out,
By the Romans the Eagle will be demanded,
Ticino, Milan and Genoa having consented to it,
Then by themselves the same Royal complained against.
How often we have come to lament decision made in haste?
The word I have rendered Royal, is Basil, in the original, coming from the Latin, basilicus-a etc. royal, splendid; via the Greek basileus, king, lord, prince.
Within the Iles of five rivers to one,
Because of the expansion of the great Selin" href="https://www.secret-vault.com/nostradamus/books/34-chyren-Selin.html">Chyren Selin,
Through the drizzles in the air and the fury of one,
6 escape hidden in the bundles of linen.
A serious question now arises, are Selin" href="https://www.secret-vault.com/nostradamus/books/34-chyren-Selin.html">Chyren and Selin, two different individuals or the same person? Or perhaps Selin" href="https://www.secret-vault.com/nostradamus/books/34-chyren-Selin.html">Chyren Selin, is the son of Selin? Read on,
At first the great fruit of the Prince of Pesquiere,
But then he will become rich and cruelly spiteful,
Who within Venice will lose his proud glory,
And put to evil by the even younger Celin.
The first two lines Century 8, Verse 31 obviously baffled EL. & JH. Both have rendered the word 'pesquiere' as Peschiera, without the slightest of explanations: quite clearly they had no idea what it meant.
M.R. has 'perquiere' in his French? And translates as sig. duels? I suppose I should be great full, and least I get to laugh every time I see his miss copied French and even more ludicrous translations of it; and that's before reading what he thinks any verse is about: 3 laughs for every verse, surely you are a good friend of Knowing Nothingus?
Pesquiere has been bastardized for the sake of poetry, so that it rhymes with fiere.
It is from Pesqueur, as Pescheur, a fisher, fisherman. And in this case relates to the popehood and Jesus, who he will at first imitate. Then power and wealth will corrupt him and he will show his true colours first in Venice, goaded on by the young Celin.
Is this young Celin, an offspring of Selin, who later will be called Selin" href="https://www.secret-vault.com/nostradamus/books/34-chyren-Selin.html">Chyren Selin? It is written in the verses, and if they don't reveal it, history will.
Under the pretence of a marriage treaty,
Noble gesture made by the great Selin" href="https://www.secret-vault.com/nostradamus/books/34-chyren-Selin.html">Chyren Selin,
St Quentin and Arras recovered on the journey,
The Spanish to make a second wall stronger.
St Quentin and Arras are a long way from Spain; being near the top of France. But Spain is obviously unnerved by the moves, or alliances Selin" href="https://www.secret-vault.com/nostradamus/books/34-chyren-Selin.html">Chyren Selin is forging. Not for the first time in history will Spain and Rome be deadly enemies, and we have already covered verses in which it seems another Hannibal might arise.
The word I have rendered stronger, is Maclin, in the orig. [ EL, JH. Render, macelin, which they both say is Latin, Macellum, but I knew not of it, nor could I find it; meat market they say?]
The word has suffered for rhyme not reason. The rhyming word was Selin, the two are an anagram,
M A C L I N
S E L I N
M A S C L I N E
Missing 'u' as always your dear friend Nostra.
The word was masculine, the manly, the stronger of the two. In other words, the Spanish will strengthen their weak defences in the Pyrenees mountains.
And the word I have rendered 'wall' is 'banc', it can sig. bank, form, seat; also, shelf, or sandy hill in the sea, or the walls that hold back earth on the slopes of vineyards etc. I see that they will build stone walls that will hold stones, that can be released to cause rock falls, a great weapon for ambush.
It has to said that what EL. Thinks the coming verse about is nonsense. What JH, thinks, is even more pathetic; and what NR, thinks, linking it to Ivan the Terrible of Russia is nothing short of fantastical flights of mad fantasy, it beggars belief.
The Great Chiren will be chief of the world,
even beyond; after, loved, feared and dreaded,
His fame and praise will rise above that of the heavens,
And he will be well contented with the title of sole Victor.
The great one from a foreign land led captive,
Chained in gold and offered to King Cyren; [Chiren, Selin" href="https://www.secret-vault.com/nostradamus/books/34-chyren-Selin.html">Chyren.]
Who within Ausonia, Milan will lose the war,
And all his army put to fire and sword.
I can only smile when I see that Nostra has used the French word 'mene' in line one. Mene does indeed signify, led, brought, guided, conducted; but I am I reminded of, Daniel with king Belshazzar, 'Mene, Mene, Tekel, Parsin', 'God has numbered the days of your reign, and brought it to an end'. Is it a clue to where the great one who is captured came from? Belshazzar was a Babylonian king.
But all is not what it seems, for if we remember the previous verse, there was peace under the Selin king of Italy. History moves like a snake, rarely a straight and obvious way.
The great Selin" href="https://www.secret-vault.com/nostradamus/books/34-chyren-Selin.html">Chyren will seize Avignon for himself,
Letters from Rome in honey full of bitterness,
From Chanignon the ambassadors leave with a letter, (reply).
While Carpentras is taken by the black Duke with the red plume.
Avignon and Carpentras are very near to each other, and very roughly between 50 and 60 miles above Marseille. Chan-ignon, is either a name of a person, for there is now town or city yet by that name; or Nostra has corrupted the name for poetical need
End of line one:
End of line four:
I suspect it is Chan-tilly, but that would be silly, wouldn't it. (Chantilly, not far from Paris).
Now Avignon and Carpentras are so close that you might think that the Black One with the red feather, and the great Selin" href="https://www.secret-vault.com/nostradamus/books/34-chyren-Selin.html">Chyren might clash, unless of course they are allies. I note that in the first line in French we have, 'Selin" href="https://www.secret-vault.com/nostradamus/books/34-chyren-Selin.html">Chyren soy saisir d 'Avignon.' Soy, sig' he, himself, and the implication seems to be that he desires Avignon for himself? Anyway, I will leave it there for now.
The one with Black Frizzy Beard through craftiness,
will subjugate the cruel and fierce people:
the great Chiren to take from afar,
all those captured under the flag of Seline.
People around Tarn, Lot, and the Garonne rivers,
Beware of passing over the Apennine mountains:
Near Rome and Ancona your graveyard will be,
The black frizzy haiRed One will erect a monument to his Victory.
The rivers Tarn and Lot are both tributaries of the river Garonne in the lower Southwest part of France.
One can only assume that the army raised from the areas around the fore mentioned rivers, Cross the Med: if they land in Italy near Rome they will have to Cross the Apennine Mountains to reach Ancona. If the sail around Italy and begin their attack in Ancona on the Adriatic coast they will have to Cross the Apennines to reach Rome.
What is especially strange is that Nostra, even if only to France, warns them directly to steer clear of certain actions. My exposure of this verses makes even more clear, and yet no matter how any times the warnings are given, it will not make a jot, of difference to coming and unfolding pages of history.
Between two monarchs set far apart,
Then will the clear sun be lost because of Selin,
Great private hatreds held between the two indignant ones,
So, that liberty will be restored to the Iles and Seina.
The reference to the clear sun, has nothing at all to do with the Sun in the heavens; but in belief. The two indignant monarchs will question the law or the interpretation of it, taking their minds off other things, thus through neglect they will lose things previously under their control.
The great Satyr (Satrap) and tiger of Hyrcania,
A gift presented to those of the Ocean:
A fleets chief will set sail from Carmania,
One who will make a landing at the Tyrren Phocean.
Hyrcania, and Carmania, modern Iran. The port or place of sailing may be the Minab river? Principal port with the region (Hormouz-Hormuz).
At port Selin the tyrant will be put to death,
Yet despite that freedom ill not be recovered,
A new war, through vindictiveness and remorse,
The Lady will be honoured through force and fear.
While there will be a Queen very powerful and evil in her time, the LADY, in question here, is undoubtedly, the Virgin Mary, head of the Catholic Church. Perhaps the inquisition will rear its ugly head again?
[Only French word needing explanation in this verse, pourtant, line 2, = notwithstanding, yet for all that, howsoever. Which considering line 1, I rendered, 'yet despite that'; as despite the fact that the tyrant is killed.]
The legion within the marine fleet
Will burn lime, magnesium, sulphur and
Tar, [Greek or sticky fire] The long peace within the secured place, (over),
Port Selin and all the Herculian city of Monaco in flames and destroyed.
The composition of Greek, or sticky fire has long been debated, it is the pitch or tar which allows the mixture to stick to almost anything; no doubt you have in your chemistry lessons seen the intensity with which magnesium burns. A concoction of burning poisonous gassy acids and intense sticky flames, fired from a device like a flamethrower. [ do not under any circumstance, try to make even the smallest amount of this mixture.]
The enemies of fort very far away,
By chariots they will come to the Bastion,
Then upon the walls of Bourges (empty) defied,
When Hercules (strike) contrive against the Haemathion (Macedonian).
Near the Douro by sea, Cyrrenne, closed off,
He will come to pierce the Pyrenees,
In the short term, exposed and thrust into,
At Carcassonne, he will conduct his plot.
[see book on France.]
The 3 pellices for a long time to fight amongst themselves,
The greater one the least to pay attention:
The great Selin will no longer be her patron,
She will name him fire shield white route
(blech, burp, wind; also, as a route, scattering or destruction of an enemy?)
Pellicles: as pelice= furry? Or pellicio, alluring, enticing? Not sure, more input needed.
By the 5th one and the great Hercules,
They will come to open the temple by the hand of war,
One Clement, jule=Julius and Ascans repulsed,
The sword, clef=key, Eagle, never once so great a quarrel.
Towards Aquitaine those from the British Isles
By these without allies, great incursions.
Rains, frosts will make the ground treacherous,
Via Port Selyn to make mighty invasions.
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